[spectre] TRACING UNDERCURRENTS: Sonic Routes Between

Tue Oct 11 20:16:48 CEST 2005

simon et al,

  i welcome any kind of critique and debate...even regarding PR 
announcements, but i have to say that i deplore the *ease* at which 
such harsh accusations as *zionist apartheid*, *israeli imperialism* 
have been thrown at a music program which after all is not political in 
content, and let's face it...all it is trying to do is bring some young 
artists from tel-aviv and jerusalem, who do cool things with music and 
electronics, to Amsterdam.  it is also part of a series involving 
artists from beirut and istanbul (hopefully to be expanded to other 
cities if the resources can ever be found). so this is its modest 
context, and please let us not forget it.

when i say not political in content, i do not mean that these projects 
are depoliticised: any cultural practice, or curatorial act for that 
mater is politicised, yet bringing some independent labels/sound 
artists over from tel-aviv and jerusalem to perform is very far from 
pushing a zionist agenda, or agreeing with israel's politics of 
colonisation. i really object to this kind of simplistic reductionism!

simon, whilst i appreciate your position on Israel (and actually agree 
to a large extent with you - but this aside), you raise a few 
fundamental issues which somehow seem to get lost, since the discussion 
spirals into israel's right of existence, and oppressive politics - a 
valid debate of course, but is it linked to this project?

these issues are a.o.:
- the *political* responsibility of curator, organisers and artists 
when organising programs
- the relationship between aesthetics and political correctness
- the relationship between curatorship and tokenism
- etc...

now, i have worked on various occasions palestinian artists, i have 
worked with israeli artists, and i have worked with israeli&palestinan 
artists together.  these collaborations have always been spurred by the 
type of project and the context the work is shown in, and the merit of 
the artists in question. on some occassions it totally made sense to 
have israeli and palestinian artists together, and on other occassions 
it didn't.  curatorial decisions were made based on their work and the 
concept of the project.  this is not to say that i don't recognise the 
fact there are very complex and sensitive issues involved in all these 
processes.  throughout my work i really try to make an effort to 
accommodate these sensitivities and let the artists' voice 
speak...knowing that - depending on the actors involved -others will 
pigeonhole me as being anti-zionist, or zionist, or feminist, or 
anti-feminist, or a technophile or a technophobe or whatever...so be 
it.

i abhor tokenism of any kind, just to be politically correct. to me 
this is a wrong departure point for critical cultural practice, 
especially for projects which from their onset do not pretend to be 
inclusive or representative in any manner.  i find it very exhausting 
that every time israeli artists are involved in a project the thematic 
HAS to relate to the conflict: it just gives a very twisted idea of 
what is going on in a cultural scene. nor do i think that every time i 
invite an israeli artist, i should invite a palestinian one, just for 
the sake of being politically correct.  mind you, many palestinian 
artists i know, would refuse that, for obvious reasons.

as for the strategy of cultural boykott: i respect your position, but 
personally i have never believed in (cultural) collective punishment.   
i remember similar discussions going on about austrian artists in 2000 
when haider got elected.  there are many israeli artists - many of them 
highly critical of the imperialist regime and with dissenting voices - 
whose work deserves to be shown abroad.  and on a more general note, 
isolating artists and critics merely because they happen to live in a 
country with imperialist politics, does not seem as a productive 
strategy for a critical cultural climate.

finally, on a last note... your comment stating because the mere fact 
that i invite israeli artists to perform, i have *explicitly accepted 
the right of Israel to exist and thus all the imperialist baggage that 
goes with it* is absurd.  i vehemently oppose this kind of logic.

respectfully_

nat

On Oct 11, 2005, at 13:29, Simon Biggs wrote:

> Nat, Jayce, Andreas,
>
> How to deal with Israel is an issue for all artists. It is a heavily 
> loaded
> cultural issue. I have been invited to show there a few times and 
> always
> refused. I do not recognise the right of Israel to exist. To me it is 
> simply
> an illegal occupation of a region by a group of uninvited people. At 
> the
> same time I recognise that many Israeli's have very diverse and nuanced
> attitudes and positions in this respect. Ultimately, however, I cannot 
> see
> any justification for a country (any country) to exist that is defined 
> in
> terms of religion and ethnicity. Any such country, by definition, is a
> fundamentalist state that will always deny rights to those who are 
> different
> to those who determine that definition. That Israel does this and then 
> adds
> injury to insult is doubly problematic. Anybody who chooses to be 
> identified
> as Israeli or whom chooses to make their home there as an Israeli is 
> putting
> themselves in an ethically very difficult position.
>
> Jayce's conflation of Israel post 1948 and South Africa during 
> apartheid
> seems a reasonable position to take, even though the situations in the 
> two
> regions are very different. Nevertheless, the cultural and economic 
> boycott
> of SA during the 1980's was definitely an important element in 
> contributing
> to change. As you might be aware, many in the UK, and elsewhere, are 
> calling
> for an equivalent boycott of Israel and although there have only been 
> half
> successful attempts to institutionalise this many individuals and 
> groups do
> implement such a boycott (for a few months the UK University lecturer's
> union NATFHE managed to sustain an official academic boycott until it 
> was
> overturned under governmental and institutional pressure). Personally I
> support the strategy of a boycott and thus also refuse to work with 
> Israeli
> institutions or those who identify themselves as politically/culturally
> Israeli (I have no problem with Jewish non-Zionists, having been 
> married to
> one for many years).
>
> I do not agree with Jayce that the moderators of Spectre should filter 
> out
> the announcement you posted. If your post had not been made this debate
> would not now be being had; a debate that is valuable here, as 
> elsewhere. If
> you are going to position yourself in a manner that inevitably leads to
> questioning your political position in respect of Israel in a forum 
> where I
> imagine most people deplore what Israel has done, is doing and thus 
> what it
> stands for then you have to expect robust debate.
>
> I am sure your political intent with this show is good - but perhaps 
> you
> have made an error of judgement in doing such a show at this time,
> especially one that does not set as its central thematic the 
> relationship
> between Israel and the people they have subjugated and imprisoned en 
> mass.
> Given this you have to expect criticism from those who hold rather 
> strongly
> held positions on this. You cannot on the one hand say that there is " 
> NO
> acceptance of Israeli imperialism within this program" and then do a 
> show
> describing itself as an exhibition of Israeli artists. By doing that 
> you
> have ec (Israel is by definition imperialist).
> There is no great difference between your show and doing a show of 
> white
> only South African art during aparthied. I would expect you can see 
> that.
>
> Best
>
> Simon
>
>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:59:20 +0200
>> From: nat muller <nat at xs4all.nl>
>> Subject: Re: [spectre] TRACING UNDERCURRENTS: Sonic Routes Between
>> To: spectre at mikrolisten.de
>> Message-ID: <07a43e86ea37cec4c77a3f43595ea93b at xs4all.nl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> dear simon,
>>
>> thank you for your comment.
>> as the organiser and curator of this event, and as someone who has
>> lived in israel, and is quite familiar with its  various discourses,
>> AND as someone who has always been highly critical (and vocal) about
>> israel's politics of occupation and dispossesion, i feel i need to
>> position myself.  being an *israeli imperialist* as you put it, is 
>> def.
>> not my position!  whoaw!
>>
>> i think everyone on the list knows about the *indigenous* people who
>> have lived in Palestine, that is a superfluous comment. nor  do i 
>> think
>> this PR blurb propagates a Golda Meir-like stance.  let me make clear
>> that there is ,
>> and i am very sorry you read that into this announcement.  there are a
>> few points i would like to clarify before being further accused of
>> having internalised the evils of zionism.
>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:43:18 -0400
>> From: jsalloum at aol.com
>> Subject: [spectre] Re: your
>> To: spectre at mikrolisten.de
>> Message-ID: <8C79BE9FF68F126-177C-1668A at MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Spectrel list managers,
>>
>> It is rather unbelievable that you accept and promote uncritically an
>> 'Israeli' position and attitude that denies any representation of a
>> Palestinian existence not to mention such things as rights or
>> occupation or even conquest. Just think if you were running this list
>> in Apartheid era S. Africa you could be promoting and accepting the
>> Afrikaaner arts groups at the same time denying any recognition or
>> representation of the indigenous people in that colonized state.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jayce
>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:29:19 +0200
>> From: Andreas Broeckmann <abroeck at transmediale.de>
>> Subject: [spectre] Re: your
>> To: jsalloum at aol.com
>> Cc: spectre at mikrolisten.de
>> Message-ID: <a05200f4bbf71269d249c@[192.168.3.23]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>>
>> dear jayce,
>>
>> so far, this list has been an open forum for people in the arts in
>> europe and beyond, to inform others about their work and discuss
>> things where necessary. i see no reason why we should start censoring
>> postings so long as people like simon and yourself keep a critical
>> eye on what the colleagues are doing. to accuse nat muller, of all
>> people, of promoting a kind of zionist apartheid is nonsense (do you
>> have an idea what she has been doing in the last years? check it
>> out!), though i agree that the formulations in her announcement were
>> problematic - which she has acknowledged.
>>
>> nevertheless i think it is more fruitful to discuss things with her
>> on or off the list, rather than call for the list police to expell an
>> unwanted voice.
>>
>> regards,
>> -a
>
>
> Simon Biggs
> simon at littlepig.org.uk
> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>
> Professor, Art and Design Research Centre
> Sheffield Hallam University, UK
> http://www.shu.ac.uk/schools/cs/cri/adrc/research2/
>
>
>
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_______--//
Nat Muller // free-lance curator // critic // organiser // 
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