[spectre] Art and science: why duality is good, why (new media)theory is poor

[Louise Desrenards]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Annick Bureaud" <annick at nunc.com>
To: "Jose-Carlos Mariategui" <jcm at ata.org.pe>
Cc: "Spectre" <spectre at mikrolisten.de>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [spectre] Art and science: why duality is good, why (new 
media)theory is poor


>
> Jose-Carlos wrote :
>
>>  usually the most deep and open criticisms come from the
>> outside of a discipline, from "the other", that is excluded from the 
>> dialog
>
> so ... if this is true for science (I would rather use the plural 
> "sciences"), this should be true for art too. Let's people "outside the 
> art" or "arts" (plural again) look at what art is doing ;-)
> no more theoreticians, art philosophy, etc.
> ... huh ! May be it is what is already happening and what we (the critics, 
> theoreticians, philosophers, artists, curators, media activists, etc.) are 
> fighting against.

Sorry of my very special Anglophone language :

Can be there are too much numerous experts speaking of Art (Arts) by a way 
that drives (it) them to the orders, as we know how money comes through the 
discourse of Art and through the conceptual criticism of Art(s) waited by 
certain institutions or foundations. In the former times there was too 
orders coming from institutions. But institutions did not conditioned (but 
only the subject) the free interpretative answer by the artist. That is 
exactly not more the actual situation.

Money does not come directly to Art but to curators or to any happy few as 
artists being able to make the academic discourse of their artistic actions. 
What does not give the best sign that Art (even they would be several) would 
be so representative of its traditional symbolic tribute. Artistic acts of 
artists have not to speak of themselves but only by themselves...

More having to be explained or extended by the discourse of their artist 
Arts do not reveal of the force of their acts but all the contrary.

During the modernity and the post-modernity several artists were too writers 
or poets, any of them philosophers too, other were criticizes, or writers 
and mathematicians were same time poets or artists -I shall give few between 
a lot of examples as different as are Raymond Queneau, or Topor, or 
Jodorowski, or Lewis Carroll, Wittgenstein, even nowadays by a part of the 
different works of Peter Sloterdijk, but that was/is always in a register of 
feeling or trans-intellectual as a gift (even a published work under private 
signature) toward their respective field to other artists or to people. That 
was not of marketing nor of lobbying but of change, can be sold but not 
exactly as commodity.

In fact I think that the problem of the relationship of Sciences with Arts 
it is not the problem of what is an Art, but the problem that Sciences are 
not Arts by the fact that Sciences work always with a methodology to 
experiences can being reproduced or not approved as result -even these ones 
or human sciences regarding stochastic to relative reality "decidability" as 
they say. While Arts are the expression of the free feeling or 
interpretation to a work as event, not as the truth of a proof, but as real 
event.

There is something shamanist in Arts and in Poetry that never would be 
abolished, even the artists as members of the demiurgic part of societies 
would have left to be representative, their would stay any ones not being 
called artists but following creative objects, even virtual, from their own 
predictable feelings of their time of their imagination of other times.

The question is that more Arts leave their traditional reprentativity (that 
comes more from the trans-modern environment and social connections after 
the times of the connective production) more they leave their social 
interest and more they are unsupported, more Sciences appear as an 
alternative providential supporting truth to renew Arts -that makes a 
consequent -between the numerous- entropy of Arts. Because unfortunately 
there is not at all -or by misunderstanding- connection between the symbolic 
events and the scientific proofs without which there are no sciences.

But they may have game between themselves, they may play together: can be 
very interesting as dialectical installation of the mind ; but without 
critical relationship it is a very dangerous game to the actual player whose 
name is Art. And both time it is a very dangerous game in matter of 
freedom - free event as butterfly of which poetry is a field useful towards 
any price to humanity.

Can be more an extending scientific field to call for money from the side of 
the " absolute commodity " at the cost of Art.

But overall we cannot be reductionist of Arts, by this way we can only say : 
if entropy is so much advanced can be Arts as collectively representative 
are really dead (as Baudrillard could told of since a moment event he was 
not understood, in the historical sense of the lost symbolic connections to 
the trans-modern societies and power regarding the artistic acts 
themselves). Fortunately Artist and Poets are still alive, I guess.. and 
Sciences are in revolution of their Aristotelian paradigm (by elements), in 
stochastic paradigm of environment to living elements in plasticity.

L.


>
> Sorry, I could not help !
>
> Sometimes, in this discussion, I wonder about "which" science we are 
> talking about : an imagined one, a fantasized one, the one that is used by 
> politicians (and business alike) to justify everything and anything, the 
> one that scientists do (and some scientists are very much backing up some 
> politicians and business while others are not) ?
>
> We still don't have answered Andreas's original question. I had planed to, 
> at least give some info, but, well ... only 24h a day.
>
> Forgive me for the above (half) joke. Jose-Carlos, I agree with you. It 
> was not intended against you. Just I am in a "light" mood today.
>
> Annick
>
> -- 
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