[spectre] Everything is real a FB conversation

Wed Mar 30 12:01:39 CEST 2011

Everything is Real

A Facebook Conversation between Curt Cloninger, Everly Brown, Kenneth  
Bailey, Marija Vauda and Agam Andreas

Februari 21 to Februari 23 2011

CURT CLONINGER
Everything is real except for the unreal (and even "the unreal" as an  
ontological category is real). So... Hyper-real is real. Augmented  
reality is real. The virtual is real. The actual is real. Online life  
is real. Offline life is real. Digital & analog -- both real.  
Spectacle & simulacrum -- both real. Imaginary & artificial -- real,  
real, real.
February 21 at 7:14pm · LikeUnlike

·

3 people like this.

EVERLY BROWN
What about the unkown unkowns?
February 21 at 7:16pm · LikeUnlike

KENNETH BAILEY
So... would you say you consider yourself a realist? :)
February 21 at 7:24pm · LikeUnlike

CURT CLONINGER
"There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also  
know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some  
things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones  
we don't know we don't know." - D...onald Rumsfeld

The glib response would be to say, "I don't know." Instead, I will say  
that the unknown unknowns are also real. Because even in Rumsfeld's  
statement, there is a presumption -- he presumes to know that the  
unknown unknowns are (at least) things. We don't know that we don't  
know them, but we still presume that "they" "are" "ones."See More
February 21 at 7:24pm · LikeUnlike

· 1 personLoading...

CURT CLONINGER
Kenny, I myself am not a realist, but I am real, and realism is real.
February 21 at 7:25pm · LikeUnlike

· 1 personLoading...

MARIJA VAUDA
''...Something un-named doesn't exist.But everything is named./ 
V.Nabokov/''...SAME WAY WE COULD THOUGHT ABOUT REAL/ 
ITY/...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
February 21 at 8:38pm · LikeUnlike

· 1 personLoading...

AGAM ANDREAS
Everything inside men is unreal, and a fiction of human beings,  
reality only exists outside human experience

Nature is real
body is real
corpse is real
...
mind is unreal,
art is unreal,

death is real
life is real

politics is unreal,
language is unreal
relation is unreal

Sound is real
Logic is unreal

Air is real

Love is unreal
Hate is unreal

Tree is real
Imaging a tree is unreal

Dreaming is unreal
Stone is real

Nature is real
Culture is unreal

FB is unreal
Internet is unreal

Fight the unreality!
Make things!, not thoughts!

URD

Unreality Resistance Department

"Natura Naturans", Baruch d'Espinoza
See More
February 21 at 8:55pm · LikeUnlike

MARIJA VAUDA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics
SEMIOTICS CHAIN COULDN'T BE BROKEN WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE...
1./IMAGINING TREE IS UNREAL TREE IS ALSO UNREAL
2./TREE IS REAL AND IMAGINING TREE REAL
3./KIGJCZ IS REAL AND IMAGINING KIGJCZ IS REAL
......MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...See More
February 21 at 10:10pm · LikeUnlike

AGAM ANDREAS
Reality is a relation

No relation no reality

No words no nonsense
...
SRD

Semiotic Resistance DepartmentSee More
February 21 at 10:55pm · LikeUnlike

MARIJA VAUDA
...THAT'S CORRECT...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
February 21 at 11:06pm · LikeUnlike

CURT CLONINGER
Andreas, I think Bergson would say that matter and memory are both  
real. Memory may be something like "the virtual," but both the virtual  
and the actual are real to Bergson. The virtual is simply a kind of  
contingent real that hasn't been a...ctualized yet historically/ 
materially. Memory modulates matter and vice versa; both within the  
real.

Latour would argue that the nature/culture divide is a residual  
cultural construct from Romanticism.

More radically, Deleuze/Guattari would argue that on the big-picture  
plane of consistency/immanence (what I understand as something like  
Bergson's "real" or Heidegger's "being-in-the-world"), things modulate  
thoughts modulate things modulate language modulate geology modulate  
politics modulate bodies modulate faces modulate biology modulate  
cooking/eating modulate dwelling, etc. All within the real, just  
captured into different (albeit intricately interconnected) strata.  
(Yet they might come close to agreeing that logic is unreal.)See More
February 21 at 11:16pm · LikeUnlike

AGAM ANDREAS
I agree on stating that the culture/nature divide is an artificial  
byproduct of romanticism went wrong

Regarding reality as a relation - to be actively keep alive, a kind of  
relational heartbeat - reality is depended both on nature and  
cult...ure - the dynamical consumption of its conflicting and  
irrational ways of expressing its very existence is both alienating  
and connecting

The actual act of thinking itself is insufficient to comprehend its  
own nature, expressed as it is by its dynamic relation with its  
cultural dominating ecosystems in which it is forming

Wiener and Maturana/Varela are trying to understand life as a kind of  
autopoesis on which memory serves an Darwinistic role in using matter  
to maintain the best possible outcome of its need - will? - to  
maintain its living condition

Reality is a continuously 'becoming' and never will 'be'

"Real is what was before birth and remains after death, in between is  
the realm of the unreal called life"

ARD

Autopoetical Resistance Department
February 21 at 11:50pm · LikeUnlike

CURT CLONINGER
 >> "Reality is a continuously 'becoming' and never will 'be'."

I agree here. This is D+G's critique of most philosophy -- If we only  
ever analyze what "is" or "has been," then how will we ever understand  
the mechanisms that bring things in...to being?

 >> "Real is what was before birth and remains after death, in between  
is the realm of the unreal called life."

Here I would disagree, but then I don't think life (or being, or time)  
ends at death (which puts me a bit at odds with the "existential"  
Heidegger -- I don't see death as the horizon of being, although it is  
indubitably the horizon of being-in-the-world).See More
February 22 at 12:19am · LikeUnlike

MARIJA VAUDA
...Maurice Merleau-Ponty have well known phenomenologycal definition  
of time as something:''Which is not anymore and it's not yet.''...Also  
need to see phenomenon of *real* or *unreal* could be seen in system  
of Leibniz monads /http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Leibniz /  
which is re-actual/sated/ in recent micro physic research/mater-anti- 
mater/...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
February 22 at 1:00pm · LikeUnlike

AGAM ANDREAS
Some reading food, for adventurous minds only!:

http://www.heksis.com/index.html
February 23 at 2:09pm · LikeUnlike

AGAM ANDREAS
special issue about body and art in Polish and English, very  
interesting periodical, concerned with rather 'difficult' issues.

Well worth reading!
February 23 at 2:10pm · LikeUnlike

· 1 person

Andreas Maria Jacobs

w: http://www.nictoglobe.com
w: http://burgerwaanzin.nl
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://post.in-mind.de/pipermail/spectre/attachments/20110330/4e3d0872/attachment.htm